Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

De legerdienst 1945-1992 in 't algemeen en de Belgische Strijdkrachten in Duitsland.

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Fallout2077
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Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 16 dec 2017 14:43

Hello all! So as said in my introduction post, I don't speak Dutch, so apologies for that. I am wanting to get all of the uniforms and gear a conscript in the ABL would have had in the early 80s, 1983 specifically. I am wanting to go for a soldier stationed in BSD as part of the 1BE Corps.

So essentially I need to know what all a conscript had. So what I know about is this:

-Field Uniform(Gevechtskledij 64)(TC64 Summer & Winter, 2 Summer Uniforms and 1 Winter Uniform)
-Field Equipment(Mod.71 set)
-M51 Gas Mask(Gasmasker) in Bag, with Contents
-Mod.71 Rucksack(Rugzak) with Contents
-Dress Uniform
-Duffel Bag(Kitbag) and Contents

Then there is also the Cabinet/Wall Locker/Closet "Kast" at the barracks, what all would be in that?

So what I want to know is, in exact detail as best as you possibly can remember, what all were you issued and how many? Details are key for me.

Then, I want to know what goes is the kitbag, rugzak, uniform pockets, and the munitietas on the web gear.

I have more questions but I don't want to overload you guys so I will just start with this. Any photos you have of your service in the late 70s to early 80s would be highly appreciated as well. Photos of you in field gear, or of your dread uniform, of of the kast or really anything.

Thank you all very much!

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one_O_five
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door one_O_five » 16 dec 2017 16:29

In 83 I was a tank commander on Leopard 1, 4 lth regiment Lansiers, Soest (Northreihn-Westfalen, germany).
Field Equipment mod 71 You can find at the site from a friend ... http://www2.kamp-vogelsang.be/bsd/bz_g01a/index.php
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Fallout2077
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 16 dec 2017 18:44

Hello! Do you mind if I ask you a few questions from when you were in in 1983? Here or in a PM.

As for that book, I have the full webbing already, but the list in the back is of interest. I have already translated it earlier on, but I don't know how accurate this list is. As someone who was there, is this what you had, did you have all of this or did you only have some of these items? Did you have more of these items or anything not listed? The reason I ask is often manuals don't reflect reality, so I was using this as a guide but was hoping to hear from vets first hand to confirm.

Full List:

1 - Wash Bowl, Linen - 1
2 - Field Cap - 1
3 - Toilet Bag - 1
4 - Combat Shoes, High Shaft - 2
5 - Undershirts - 2
6 - Underwear - 2
7 - Greatcoat or Parka - 1
8 - Socks(Pair) - 3
9 - Shirt - 2
10 - Tie - 1
11 - Scarf - 1
12 - Towel - 2
13 - Mess Kit - 1
14 - Canteen and Cover - 1
15 - Spoon, Fork, Knife - 1
16 - Gloves(Pair) - 1
17 - Sweater - 1
18 - Duffel Bag - 1
19 - Handkerchiefs - 3
20 - Sewing Kit - 1
21 - Linen Trousers - 3
22 - ID Tag - 1
23 - Helmet U.S. with Net - 1
24 - Camouflage Scarf/Face Net - 1
25 - Bayonet Frog - 1
26 - Shovel with Cover - 1
27 - Shelter Half - 1
28 - Pocket Knife with Cord - 1
29 - Sleeping Bag - 1
30 - Gas Mask - 1
31 - FAL Cleaning Kit - 1
32 - Suspenders - 1
33 - Belt Slide Keepers(Alice clips) - 10
34 - Munition Bag - 1
35 - Rucksack - 1
36 - FAL Ammo Pouches - 2
37 - Belt - 1
38 - Combat Clothing Model 64 - 1
39 - Training of the Combat Clothing(?) - 1
40 - Ration(Food) - 2
41 - Gym Shoes - 1
42 - Individual NBC Protective Clothing - 1
43 - Field Stove ESBIT - 1
44 - Shirt Vest - 3
45 - Bandage - 1


Munition Bag(Munitietas) Contents:
-1x Spoon, Fork, Knife(Lepel, vork, mes)
-1x Camouflage Scarf/Face Net(Verduiknet aangezicht)
-1x FAL Cleaning Kit(Kuisgerief voor FAL)
-1/3 Rations(Rantsoen (voedsel))
-1x ESBIT Stove(Verwarmingsstel ESBIT)
-1x Bandage(Verbandzakje)


Rucksack(Rugzak) Contents:
-1x Linen Wash Bowl(Waskom, Linnen)
-1x Cap(Muts)
-1x Toiletry Roll(Toiletzakje)
-1x Undershirt(Onderlijfje)
-1x Underwear(Onderbroek)
-2x Socks(Sokken (paar))
-1x Shirt(Hemd)
-1x Towel(Handdoek)
-1x Mess Kit(Eetketels)
-1x Handkerchief(Zakdoeken)
-1x Linen Trousers(Linnen broek)
-2/3 Rations(Rantsoen (voedsel))
-1x Individual NBC Suit(Individuele NBC beschermingskledij)
-1x Shirt Vest(Hemdvest)


Duffel Bag(Kitbag) Contents:
-1x Combat Boots(Gevechtsschoenen, hoge schacht)
-1x Overcoat or Parka(Kapootjas of Parka)
-1x Shirt(Hemd)
-1x Tie(Das)
-1x Scarf(Sjerp)
-1x Towel(Handdoek)
-1x Pair of Gloves(Hanschoenen (paar))
-1x Sweater(Trui)
-1x Duffel Bag(Kit-bag)
-1x Handkerchief(Zakdoeken)
-1x Sewing Kit(Naaigerief)
-1x Linen Trousers(Linnen broek)
-1x Gym Shoes(Turnpantoffels)
-1x Summer Jacket(Hemdvest)

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door one_O_five » 17 dec 2017 08:19

No problem, I was tankcommander from 79 till 85, shooting Canadian Army Trophy 83, SQMS from 85 till 86, later As4Mat at the Camp Vogelsang.
That list is the official manual and we ereceived that material as we enter the army.
At that time we have still conscripts, they served one year, the equipment was splitted in two parts, personal and corps equipment.
Clothing, shoes and so thay take it home, webbing, helmet and other material stay in the army.
The conscripts stay a few years in th reserve, by a recall they comes with the personal kittbag and recive the corps equipment.
Professionel solsiers becomes the same and a anunual endowment for replace personal equipment, damaged corps equipment as to be changed, lost equipent we have to pay.

The green linen clothing is as good as untraceable today
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Fallout2077
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 17 dec 2017 17:40

I am having some trouble with translations. So let start with this:

Hemd - Shirt
Das - Tie
Hemdvest - Shirt Vest
Linnen broek - Linen Trousers
Gevechtskledij 64 - Combat Clothing 64
Training Gevechtskledij - Training Combat Clothing

So with the above list I believe I have the correct translations into English, but I don't know what these items are. For example, the one called Hemd, its a shirt, but what shirt? How is it different from the Hemdvest? And what is this combat clothing 64? I was under the impression that the Hemdvest and linnen broek was the summer combat uniform, so is the Gevechtskledij 64 a combined name including the hemdvest and linnen broek or are they different too?

And what is the Training Gevechtskledij?

About the one called hemd, it says each soldier had 2, 1 in the kitbag and 1 in the rugzak, I assume this is a dress shirt, the one worn with the das right? But why would the dress shirt be in the rugzak?

Also about quantity, it says soldiers only had 2 pairs of underwear and 2 undershirts, this seems too low, did you really only have 2 sets of underwear?

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door canadian2nd » 17 dec 2017 19:51

Hi Fallout,
I think that the "hemdvest" was made of a more heavier fabric than the "hemd". I don’t think that the "hemd" was the dress shirt, but the usual every-day-to-wear kaki shirt to wear above the undershirt and under the hemdvest.
And yes ... they had only 2 pairs of underwear (2 knickers and 2 undershirts) .... poor little Belgium.
The "training gevechtskledij" I think was a sports outfit I believe.
If not correct, 1-o-5 will correct me.
cheers
Jan
In memoriam mijn opa Gerard : Sold 4 Li - 18d veldtocht (23 Li) - KG gemaakt bij Gent - eind 1944 : vrijwilliger bij 1005e Tpt Coy - gesneuveld voor België t.g.v. V2 inslag te Hove op 31-1-1945. I will always remember him ....

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door one_O_five » 18 dec 2017 08:19

That all is before the mod 71, at that time there is a conversion between teh Britischa and US style clothing.
Hemd = shirth, it was worn under the "hemdvest".
The hemdvest was in fact the heavi shirt from the Britisch Battledress.
At the same time the army intoduced the linnen broek, this pant was made from linen, a tipical Belgian product.
After a while the combination hemd and hemdvest is also replaced bij a linen shirt, from then the name linen clothes was uwual.
Combat clothing 64 is right, a combination of a heavy jacket with hood and pant, the training was in fact underwear for the combath clothing shaped like a trainingshuit.

All the lists are a base equipment for conscripts, they served a year and the army replaced damaged or lost items.
They have more untherwear but wat is marked in the list was requered in allways the bags, in daily barracks life the linen clothes are wearing, by exercises and alarm the combad clothes.
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Fallout2077
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 18 dec 2017 13:56

It's all from the mod71 manual from 1978.

So you are saying the hemdvest is the battledress and the hemd and das are what was worn under it right? But why no mention of the Battledress trousers then, or does the linnen broek refer to the battledress trousers? Or was the battledress trousers replaced by the linnen broek?

I am still very confused on this matter. Do you happen to have photos of any of this? I want to try and understand it fully.

So the combat clothing 64 is the M64 parka and trousers with velcro? Correct?
Afbeelding
Afbeelding
This?

Fallout2077
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 18 dec 2017 14:01

Then there is also this jacket liner, is this what you are saying is the training combat clothing, the under layer?

Afbeelding

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door one_O_five » 18 dec 2017 16:24

Parka and trousers with velcro is correct, jacket liner is a later version.

Training combath clothing looks moor like a green piyama.
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Fallout2077
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 18 dec 2017 17:29

What year was the jacket liner introduced? Mine is from 1985. Also was there a liner for the trousers?


This is the so called linnen vest right?
Afbeelding

wolf
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door wolf » 18 dec 2017 18:19

one_O_five schreef:
18 dec 2017 16:24
Parka and trousers with velcro is correct
We've got it in '70 (2nd Commando Bataljon) ibut we never used it.
It makes a lot of noise with all that velcro. :shock:

Here I'm wearing a "hemdvest".
Afbeelding
Laatst gewijzigd door wolf op 18 dec 2017 18:31, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.

Fallout2077
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 18 dec 2017 18:28

wolf schreef:
18 dec 2017 18:19
one_O_five schreef:
18 dec 2017 16:24
Parka and trousers with velcro is correct
We've got it in '70 (2nd Commando Bataljon) ibut we never used it.
It makes a lot of noise with all that velcro. :shock:
What did you use then? The Overcoat or the battledress?

wolf
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door wolf » 18 dec 2017 18:35

always a smoke for "actions" and a battledress for "going out"
see my "hemdvest" item just above

Fallout2077
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 18 dec 2017 18:36

Smoke? Thanks for the photo by the way!

wolf
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door wolf » 18 dec 2017 18:39

smoke = camouflage jacket

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 18 dec 2017 18:43

Ah ok, and the hemdvest was worn under the camo jacket or was it only worn by itself?

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door canadian2nd » 18 dec 2017 19:57

It is called a "Smock" jacket !
The smock clothing (heavy fabric with waterproof lining inside and with the velcro fasteners) was the combat uniform to be used in combat, what ever the weather was. Just like your saginaw coats in WWII.
The "hemdvest" = linnen shirt was worn for everyday use.

... we are going to get lost in our "English" I think ....

cheers
Jan
Laatst gewijzigd door canadian2nd op 18 dec 2017 20:07, 2 keer totaal gewijzigd.
In memoriam mijn opa Gerard : Sold 4 Li - 18d veldtocht (23 Li) - KG gemaakt bij Gent - eind 1944 : vrijwilliger bij 1005e Tpt Coy - gesneuveld voor België t.g.v. V2 inslag te Hove op 31-1-1945. I will always remember him ....

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door canadian2nd » 18 dec 2017 20:05

Fallout2077 schreef:
18 dec 2017 14:01
Then there is also this jacket liner, is this what you are saying is the training combat clothing, the under layer?

Afbeelding
This was worn under the smock clothing in fierce winter conditions.

Jan
In memoriam mijn opa Gerard : Sold 4 Li - 18d veldtocht (23 Li) - KG gemaakt bij Gent - eind 1944 : vrijwilliger bij 1005e Tpt Coy - gesneuveld voor België t.g.v. V2 inslag te Hove op 31-1-1945. I will always remember him ....

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 18 dec 2017 20:10

The liner was also worn under the M64 parka right?

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door canadian2nd » 18 dec 2017 20:11

Yes, I believe so.

Jan
In memoriam mijn opa Gerard : Sold 4 Li - 18d veldtocht (23 Li) - KG gemaakt bij Gent - eind 1944 : vrijwilliger bij 1005e Tpt Coy - gesneuveld voor België t.g.v. V2 inslag te Hove op 31-1-1945. I will always remember him ....

Fallout2077
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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door Fallout2077 » 18 dec 2017 20:23

So I must admit, I am still very confused, let me try to recap and see if I am understanding things better now.

So the Hemdvest is the battledress jacket, like the ww2 british type.
The Hemd is the shirt worn with the das under the hemdvest.

The hemdvest and hemd were replaced by the linnen hemd later in the 70s.

The Linnen broek and linnen hemd are just the normal summer uniform worn in the field, green in color with hidden buttons and pleated pockets, like I showed a photo of at 09:29.

The Gevechtskledij 64 is just the name for the winter parka and trousers, showed in my post at 5:56.

The Training Gevechtskledij is a green undersuit or something?


How am I doing so far? I am mostly getting caught up in terminology, for example hemd just means shirt, searching belgisch leger hemd or ABL hemd brings up lots of different items but how do I know which one is the correct one? Due to the lack of specifics in the manual. So if possible I just need to see photos of the items so I can then understand what is the items being discussed.

My end goal is to pack a duffel bag and rucksack for 1983, so I need to know what is correct for that, what all when in it and how many. If the hemd, hemdvest, and das were not carried in the field in 1983 what was in their place?

Any of you have a list by chance of what you were issued, I have a list from 1971 in French and Dutch but it is a bit too early for reference for 1983.

Also wondering what all was in the kast.

Anyways, thank you all for the help you have provided, I really appreciate it! :)

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Re: Full Equipment of a Belgian Conscript ca. 1983

Bericht door one_O_five » 19 dec 2017 07:49

That is Belgium Fallout ...
The list from 71 was still in use at 83, some clothings are changed in shape or material.
Changes in equipment went slowly, combat units were first supplied, Air Force and Navy had different equipment, para and command units already wore camouflage vests.
At that time, the Belgian Gendarmerie also existed as a military component, die hadden dan blauwe uniformen en groene gevechtskledij.
All in all typical Belgian chaos.
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